News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Obtaining a certified copy of grandfather's naturalization certificate  (Read 18540 times)
jmrsamo
New User
*
Posts: 18


View Profile
« on: February 27, 2010, 11:16:07 AM »

Hello Everyone,
I'm sorry if this is a repeat.
I am confused as to how I can obtain a certified copy of my grandfather's (on my father's side) Naturalization Certificate that is in the correct form for presentation to the Italian Consulate. The reason why I am asking is, I went through the USCIS site before in an attempt to get the Naturalization Certificate for my grandfather on my mother's side. What I got after the index search and then 5 months of waiting was an illegible, very bad xerox copy of this document that had certain parts whited out. I knew that I could not use this document for the consulate. The pathway of my grandfather on my mother's side didn't work out because my mother as a child in Italy was naturalized with him when he acquired American citizenship.
I had given up my quest for Italian citizenship, when last Christmas, my cousin tells me my uncle has some of my grandfather's papers that no one has looked at in some time. Well, there was his Naturalization Certificate and lo and behold, he was naturalized after my father was born in the US. We always assumed he was naturalized much earlier.
I realized my quest was still on. I have most of the paperwork from my previous try. I just need to get a proper copy of the naturalization certificate and his birth certificate from Petrella Tifernina, Molise ( which I am working on). Any clarification on the proper way to obtain the certificate or can I use a self made copy of the original document, would be very greatly appreciated. This has been a very long journey.
Grazie mille,
Joe
Logged
CittadinoItalia
Full Member
***
Posts: 167


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2010, 12:34:26 PM »

Which consulate will you be applying at?  Some of them have quirky requirements...

Having said that, if you have the original certificate, you should be able to use that with your application.  In such a case, the consulate will review the certificate and, if satisfied, make a photocopy and return the original to you.
Logged
jmrsamo
New User
*
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 01:35:23 PM »

Thanks for getting back to me.

I will be applying at the NY consulate.

I don't have the original. It is in the hands of my relatives quite a distance from me. i was wondering if I can just get another copy or should I try to get the original. I don't know if my relatives will be comfortable with that but that may be the best way. As long as the consulate doesn't keep it.

Thanks
Logged
Tiffany
Global Moderator
Preferred Member
*****
Posts: 1118



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 10:23:59 PM »

I would try to get the original - it may be easier than going through the USCIS.  The consulate won't keep it - make them a photocopy that they can keep after seeing the original.  Good luck and great news!
Logged

Please follow the rules.  Per favore seguite le regole.
jmrsamo
New User
*
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 12:24:48 PM »

Thank you, Tiffany,
I will try to get the original, that seems to make the most sense and probably save me months of headaches.
I am curious though, the only way to get a proper copy of the naturalization certificate is to go through the USCIS? When I went that route previously, I ended up with a really bad xerox copy that was unusable, as I mentioned. How do you get a usable copy?
This is my second try at citizenship, so lets hope this will work.
Thanks for all of your help and advice.
Joe
Logged
Tiffany
Global Moderator
Preferred Member
*****
Posts: 1118



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 08:33:57 PM »

I have no clue, but I know several people are actually in touch with the guys at the USCIS.  Mike Quinn I believe is who they are talking to...
Logged

Please follow the rules.  Per favore seguite le regole.
CittadinoItalia
Full Member
***
Posts: 167


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 04:28:59 AM »

I am curious though, the only way to get a proper copy of the naturalization certificate is to go through the USCIS?

My understnading is that the actual certificate (copy) is available only through USCIS.

Do I recall correctly that you are in New York?  Where did your ancestor naturalize?  Both my grandfathers naturalized in "The Supreme Court of the State of New York at White Plains" (note: state court as opposed to federal court system), and I obtained copies of their declaration, petition and oath from the Westchestr County Archives.  The archives sent them directly to the county clerk's office, where they certified them as copies of official records.  I presented these with my (successful) NYC application in June, 2008.  I did not include a copy of the actual certificate.

When I went that route previously, I ended up with a really bad xerox copy that was unusable, as I mentioned. How do you get a usable copy?

Later, for my own records, I went to USCIS (a second time) for a copy of the certificate.  Like you (and so many others), the copy I received was useless.  However, I also requested the "electronic" copy which came in the form of a jpg file burned onto a CD (the request form says they will email the file, but they actually burn a CD).  I found that I could open this file in an image editing program and adjust the contrast and brightness enough to be able to print a very usable image.  Simply printing the unedited image on a color printer (USCIS uses monochrome printers) was enough to make a huge difference.
Logged
jmrsamo
New User
*
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 06:41:14 PM »

Ciao CittadinoItalia,

Congratulations on successfully obtaining your citizenship!

Thanks for the info. I didn't think of getting the digital file. That was a good idea. Maybe at some point, I will go through it again and get it in that form. That was for my grandfather on my mother's side which proved to be a dead end anyways. They actually sent me a copy of the certificate and his First Papers. I couldn't read a thing. Its unfortunate because not only am I trying to obtain my citizenship but I am trying to gather all the information I can on my family and it would have been great to be able to see what was on that document. There has been so much information that has been lost or wrong or simply not known. It is amazing how you can piece together the whole story from all of the various documents that are out there.

I live in New York City but my other grandfather was naturalized in Erie, PA. If I remember right it might have been in the Court of Common Pleas or a judge from that court. I will definitely be checking into the local or county archives when I get back to Erie at some point.
Thanks again for all of the great information.
Joe
Logged
CittadinoItalia
Full Member
***
Posts: 167


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 09:03:50 PM »

Joe, take a look at http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/naturalization_and_immigration/3851

Making matters worse than they already were, not only is USCIS still handing out illegible documents, they are now redacting (blacking out) birthdates and some other data regarding persons other than the actual citizen applicant.  For example, while your grandfather's spouse and children are still listed on the Petition, thier birthdates will be blacked out.

Makes these documents less useful as a genealogical research tool.  In so far as I know, it is only USCIS who is doing this; documents from other sources are not redacted.

Go figure...
Logged
jmrsamo
New User
*
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 12:16:47 PM »

Ciao CittadinoItalia,
You are exactly right about the redaction. My grandfather's Naturalization Certificate(the one I referred to before) had several areas redacted. My mother and aunt were listed on his certificate as minors and portions of their information were whited out. I knew what it was because my mother has a copy of the intact certificate. It seems kind of ridiculous adding to the fact that the documents are practically illegible anyways. By the way, the fact that my mother, who was in Italy at the time, was on his naturalization certificate meant that she was also automatically naturalized. This meant that this pathway to my citizenship was closed. I have hope that my other grandfather's documents will work out. The next hurdle is getting his birth certificate from Petrella, Molise. Once I have that, I will have all the documents in hand.
Thanks again for all of the help,
Joe
Logged
2palermo
Junior Member
**
Posts: 46


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2010, 07:14:59 PM »

Hi Joe,
I only know about my own experience so this may not be helpful, but is there some reason you can't get your grandfather's naturalization records from NARA?
I understand that not all records are available from them, and I'm not sure if you have already looked into this. In my case the records were easy to obtain and excellent quality.

Sorry if this is a useless question!
Best of luck,
2p
Logged
jmrsamo
New User
*
Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 09:21:51 AM »

Hi 2p,
It is not a useless question. I may be wrong but in my efforts to get my grandfather's naturalization certificate on my mother's side, everything seems to be consolidated through the USCIS now. This is dealing with the Federal government and not anything state or local. When I went through the months long process, I got back a really terrible xerox copy of the certificate that was illegible. That was why I was wondering where do you exactly go to get a certified copy that is usable. Is this the procedure you used or are we talking about 2 different processes?
Thanks,
Joe
Logged
2palermo
Junior Member
**
Posts: 46


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 11:25:16 AM »

Hello again Joe,
I believe this is a different procedure, as I ordered a copy of my grandfather's naturalization records online from the NARA website.
It is my understanding that not all records are available from them, depending on where your gf was naturalized.

If you want to take a look at the NARA website, you may be able to tell right away if they can supply the records you need. Some people (including me at first!) seem to get a bit lost on the website, so I'll include some pointers (I have posted this before, sorry to repeat myself!):

1. Go to NARA website (archives.gov)
2. Click on ORDER ONLINE in blue box, lower right
3. Click on BUY REPRODUCTIONS AND MICROFILM
4. Click on ORDER REPRODUCTIONS
5. Under the heading RECORD REPRODUCTIONS, click on Immigration and Naturalization Records
6. Click on NATURALIZATION RECORDS
7. You have to select what type of record you want in the drop-down menu (i.e. Certified Record)
8. Click "Add To Cart"
9. You will then have to create an account/log in to put in the details of the record you want.

As I understand it, you already have a (bad) copy of these documents, so you should have all of the information necessary for ordering documents this way.

Take a look and see if it will work for you. I hope so, it was so easy in my case!
Best of luck
2p
Logged
Anna03
New User
*
Posts: 1


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 06:44:05 PM »

Hi, Joe. I'm dealing with the same thing myself. My great-grandfather was naturalized, but the certificate has been lost. I called the National Archives and they were able to give me the Petition for Naturalization, but said they didn't have the certificate b/c my great-grandfather had the only copy. It seems crazy, but the archivist said that this was the case for everyone during that time and that the archives don't have certificates for any of these people. He also said that Immigration Services would only have a copy, if anything, and that it wouldn't be certifiable. He straight up said it would be impossible for me to obtain the Certificate of Naturalization. Does anyone know whether the Petition for Naturalization would suffice for the New York Consulate?
Logged
CittadinoItalia
Full Member
***
Posts: 167


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 04:58:36 AM »

Inexplicably, some consulates now seem to be demanding to see actual "Certificate of Naturalization" documents, possibly in response to Rome's demand that more attention be paid to naturalization particulars after uncovering a few cases of fraud.

My application in NYC in mid-2008 included certified copies of the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization (which includes the Oath of Allegiance on the reverse side of the original document) which I obtained from the Westchester County (New York) Archives.  I did not have a copy of the certificate nor was I asked for one.

Honestly, I would like to think the petition and oath would be all that is ultimately needed, but your milage may vary.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.4 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!